z Posts from "The Heroes Round Table" 4

fallening · 发表于 2006-10-27 17:29:39

URL:http://www.celestialheavens.com/ ... der=asc&start=0
Author: ---
Theme:Wishes ideas and proposals for the next version

Gaidal Cain

Post your ideas for the next version of [wiki]WoG[/wiki] here. Keep in mind that we generally can't make new creatures on demand.

¤Change Rogue encounters so you sometimes encounter shooters.
¤An option to capture commander artifacts.
¤More win conditions for random maps
¤More complex diplomacy system
¤A mithril mine.
¤additional one-way & two-way monoliths
¤Linkable level 8 dwellings

Trang Oul

-downgrading units
-Might and Magic commanders
-spell books for commanders
-Forge or/and Bastion
-more undeads
-Sagamosa's scripts
-Mithril mine - max 2 bars of Mithril per week!
-encounters with any creatures based on Hero's level and army
-new spells
-new heroes: Gavin Magnus (Tower), Lucifer Kreegan (Inferno), Trang Oul (Necropolis), undead Nicholas Gryphonheart (Necropolis), Tralossk (Fortress), Archibald Ironfist (Forge)

InsaneWallaby

Most scripts are pretty easy to make, so I really don't have any requests on those that change gameplay...if anything, there are a few different things I would like, mostly to increase the options available to scripters...

1. Give the ability to change picture of hero or creatures on the adventure map, if this is not already possible.
2. Give the ability to change the picture of the hero in combat, if at all possible.
3. More "z" variables. Yes, there are still open ones, but there really aren't a ton of those left to work off of.
4. Easier management of creature growth in towns. A simple scripting command that makes it so that "Player X growth of Y creature type increases by Z" would make changing creature growth a LOT easier.
5. Fixing some of the minor bugs within the current scripts. I've nailed a few of them down and fixed them in my own set of scripts, but there are still a couple out there, and having the set of scripts downloadable off the web with no bugs would make it easier when you want to transfer scripts to other computers for multiplayer use.
6. Ensure that all scripts work without flaws in multiplayer. Most do, but there's still some annoying bugs that happen.
7. Make the azure dragon stronger. Its special abilities pale in comparison to the other super-expensive dragons. This one should be easy; I did it myself in about 15 minutes. Nevertheless, it still irks me.
8. Have some "blank" scripts. You know how in the WoG options you can enable certain scripts to occur during a game, such as mithril enhancements and artifact replacement? Have about 10 slots on the end of those options which would enable new scripts, which will be blank until the user mods them, to execute the files script78.[wiki]ERM[/wiki] to script87.erm to be added in. Essentially, give us blank scripts with the ability to enable them through the WoG options. Maybe this is already possible; I don't know. If it is, though, it would probably be a pain to do unless this was added in.
9. Flip the gorgon into it's proper bit spot when dealing with scripting...it is currently place between the level 2 and 3 beastmaster units, instead of between the 4 and 6 beastmaster units, as it should be. Doubt this is possible, but it would be helpful, nevertheless.

That's about all for me. Anything else that was added to change gameplay I would probably like quite a bit, so I look forward to anything new, but have no requests on new objects--mostly just some tweaks and minor bug correction. Thanks, and good luck with the next version.

PyroDrew

*Option to disable Diplomacy.

*User-Friendly In-Game Spell Descriptions for new players. For example, instead of having the PDF manual running in the background to find out how much a FireWall (StoneSkin, Precision, etc etc etc) does, just have script calculate the number like original Heroes3 does with Lightning, IceRing, etc.

*This last one may be asking too much, but a Heroes2 type random map generator.

doom4d

Personally I think that it is very dangerous to believe, that You can learn only if you are the winner.. Generally we learn more from our big losses..
So please, inlcude these two options in 3.59:

- Heroes earn experience after lost battles

- Heroes earn experience from own losses
You could include separate effectiveness parameters (0-255%) for these options to have possibility of fine tuning.. May be 60% and 40% would be ok?You should count own losses w/o the eliminated (summoned) elementals at the end of battle.
Add it to WoG, please!! This is my wish for Christmas..

I have a dream of having a Multi-purpose Realistic Human Intelligence Developement Engine for Heroes (Mr. Hide), was submitted for H5 (like movement frequency based speed skill- as you have seen in H5beta), and I have a simplified proposal for WoG also:

We could count the number of usages for every spell, and then add level bonuses after it. Normally You can do things better, if You have more experience with them .. And experience meaned originally, that You excercises it..
Levels for N castings could be around SQRT(N/10+1) or LOG2(N/10+1).

It's a little bit complicated, and eats up memory (with 16 bit N numbers: more then 20 w vars per hero), but would be nice to see in WoG3.59.
And it was my wish for Hanuka :)

Zamolxis

* For the Neutral town: take the 300 HP Rust Dragon out of there (and in general - go back to the 750 HP one). It's very confusing when moving from one game version to another, to have in one a 300 HP one, and in another a 750 HP one. Gorynich is a nice choice there. Either create a 200 HP unupgraded version to it, or a 300 HP upgrade.

* Remove the Fire/Air Messengers from lvl.3 (in the same Neutral town). They are as annoying as the Golems at Tower (good to hear Bigjocker is planning to make Iron basic & Gold upgrade). And the Messengers (all 4) are anyway not at all interesting. You can use their slots for other creatures.

* Either create a new option "retrain" or use "upgrade" option also for retraining troops like (Arctic/Lava) Sharpshooters into one another. I mean, if you have in your army a lot of Sharpshooters, and you find the dwelling of Lava Sharpshooters (or neutral monsters want to join), for a small fee, you could retrain them so that they join the other stack. Of course, you can also have the bigger stack retrain/upgrade, but it would cost you way more. It would make perfect sense, because it would be based on the "teaching each other" principle.

* Based on the same "teaching each other" principle, I would like us to be able to upgrade troops also out of town (but for double price). Let's say I already have ArchMagi in my army, and some Magi join me on the map (or I visit the dwelling). Why go back two days with them to the castle, just to upgrade them? Why can't the other ArchMagi teach them?
(Heroes specialized in that creature, could upgrade them for normal price - but this is just a secondary idea)

* Most Commander abilities are pretty cool & impressive, but a few of them are not that interesting, or even become lame in combination with other scripts. Some could be replaced, and one has to be tweaked a bit. Here is the complete list:

- Reduce enemy defense by 50%: useful maybe (they all are) but not at all interesting IMO. No special animation associated, no spell, no nothing. Just higher damage. But it's just not as cool as 80% of the others. Can be replaced.

- Fearsome: really cool (one of the coolest spells for my taste - not so much because of the effect, but because of the animation). Shouldn't be replaced.

- Maximum damage always: pretty cool. No special animation or anything, but I like the fact that I know what I can count on for my next hit exactly. I wouldn't change this one.

- No enemy retaliation: cool enough. I wouldn't change it. (sorry for using "cool" too often) smile

- Can shoot: it seemed pretty interesting in the beginning, but now I rarely go for it. I don't care if it's changed or not, but maybe, same as in my case, it appeases the people in the beginning.

- Endless retaliation: good. Don't change it.

- Strike all enemies around: again good. Don't change it.

- Permanent Fire Shield: interesting, but not very. Can stay.

- Block physical damage: well, I just hate this ability since the H4 Minotaurs (I could easily win or easily loose the same battle with a stack of minotaurs, just depending on luck). But maybe it's just a personal trauma. dontknow It's one of the first on my list to be changed, but maybe others really love it...

- Attack Twice: this has to be changed into "Extra Attack". It becomes a totally lame skill if you use the script that enables all creatures to attack twice, because the script doesn't apply to the commanders as well. So actually first thing to be done, is to make that script apply to them as well, and then this ability should either be replaced, or give an Extra Attack on top of that (otherwise it's not interesting). I'm really bugged by this because I play with double attack always (it shortens the battles).

- Melee attack may Paralyze: cool. Keep it.

- Regenerate 50 HP every turn: same. Keep it.

- DeathStare: same, impressing. Keep it.

- Champion distance bonus: ok. Can be kept, but not necessary.

- Ignore obstacles (fly): ok (especially for Succubus for example). Can be kept.

* Now, instead of any of those I said above that can be changed (reduce defense by 50% & block are first two on my list) I would like a tweaked "Summon creature stack" back. It was one of the coolest abilities Commanders ever had, and I still can't believe it's the one that was chosen to be removed & replaced by "block". We could have the perfect 3 + 7 + 4 formation to make the battlefields more interesting (more than any of the other abilities):
- 1st line: hanchman, commander & summoned stack
- 2nd line: the 7 troops
- 3rd line: the 4 war machines
The size of the summoned stack was a bit underbalanced for higher levels, but that can be easily tweaked, not removed. And I never experienced bugs with that script (and I was always going for it in 3.57, so I "tested" it a lot).

(I'm also one of those a bit annoyed of the number 13, so the 2 + 7 + 4 we have now bothers me also from this pov) :p

Nucleon

Nucleon likes these Doom4d suggestions:

Quote:
- Heroes earn experience after lost battles

- Heroes earn experience from own losses

Coming in late, here are a few of His own (Many may not be exclusive ideas)

- The capacity to demolish certain map buildings, like dwellings.
- Dwarven Treasuries on the adventure map.
- The capacity to upgrade creatures at an ugraded map dwelling of the said creature.
- The hability for creature specialists to upgrade their speciality creature on their own.
- A creature "de-grader" building
- A set of re-done conflux heroes, featuring, among other things, Air Planeswalker and some more personalisations.
- Alternate sets of Heroes for all faction for that matter, for the heck of it.
- Give "Eagle Eye" the capacity to learn map spells when done in the Hero's scouting viccinity. Also give EE the capacity to learn spells cast by spellcasting creatures, such as Master Genies, Fearie Drakes and Commanders.
- Fix Diplomacy with all creature joining for nothing less than a fee. Make this fee diminuish via expertise and items. Creature should cost more than their actual value at no or low Diplomacy. Also make partial Neutrals alliance, meaning not all of the stack wants to joins you. That would be specially appreciated in longer maps.

Nucleon's got to buzz. More later.
_________________
(Translated from Silent Speak)

MattII

An option to allow/disallow WoG artifacts replacing normal artifacts on map.
An option to allow/disallow artifacts from turning up as Random Artifacts.
An option to allow/disallow artifacts from turning up in map locations/treasure chests/black markets/artifact merchants.

More options for commander abilities:
An option to allow/disallow commander gems from adding primary skills beyond chosen four.
A scroll-bar to see extra secondary skills (if there are more than six).
(?) An option to allow/disallow commander secondary skills.

Somewhere to recruit ghosts.

Resource pickups (like windmills/waterwhells, but only give specified resource).

Townless hero types (creature bonusses for neutral monsters), may turn up as support heroes for that creature type (if option is selected).

Option to select un-upgraded creatures from upgraded map dwellings.

Revisitable once-per-hero bonus location applied to town locations as well as map ones.

Creatures of your hero type have increased chance of wanting to join you.

Corrected map-editor help file (most of the WoG additions either have no help topic, or incorrect ones).

Some way to play [wiki]SoD[/wiki] campaigns.

myzrael

-Try to modify the Inferno commander's special ability, I mean the creature join ability, he's waaay to powerful.
-Should do something about the ghosts, I played a game with a friend of mine and he kicked my ass with about 140k ghosts raised in about 4 months game time, try to make the maximum stack size to 15.000 and and without the ability to join stacks. Also the necromancy to about 20.000 skeletal stack.
-Redo the creature abilities (e.g. Ghost Behemonts are extremly powerful creatures at lvl 10, get rid of all the beserk casting of units like Black Dragons, and the list could go on)
-Improve special abilities to commanders such as the ones from Tower, Necropolis and Fortress.
-Improve the Azure Dragons with skills like: chance to petrify(freeze), 15% reduced damage taken (stackable with armorer skill and cannot be ignored except by commander), immune to all spells including beneficial spells and ignore target's defense by 10% (stackable with banner).
-Get rid of skeletons air shield.
-Something has to be done with the werewolves.
-Ghost Behemonts should have their speed decreased to 5 and given the immunity to slow and haste, seeing as how there are alot of speed modifiers in the game (like tactics and speed artifacts) that should make them more decent.
-Minor increase in Blood Dragons's "drain life" ability.
-Rust Dragons increased max HP, to about 600 and increased cost.
-Dragons Flies should have unlimited retaliations and attack twice instead of strike all around.
-Redo Demons and Horned Demons, they're just halariuos dontknow I mean come on death blow and chance to ignore 75% of damage confused.
-Make Orb of Vulnerability ignore all of the creatures magic resistances, except for fearless.
-Commanders should be immune to death stare and lycantropy.
-Can anyone show me the diference between warfare on a normal hero and warfare on a Rampart hero ?????
-About the forts script, try to reduce their number on the map, even with the few option there are still alot of them beeing placed.
-Death chambers quantities on map should be reduced and increased difficulty.

P.S. Love your ideea Doom4d

Nerissa

A fix to how stack experience operates, or rather, how adding new units affects total stack experience.

Adding fresh units (0 XP) to an experienced stack should take away a percentage of experience based on how much of the combined stack will be comprised of fresh units.

Say you have 20 Dwarves with 5000 XP and 20 Dwarves with 0 XP, and you combine them. The resulting stack should have 2500 XP.

It gets more complicated if you're combining stacks that have experience (Necromancers primarily have this headache over skeletons), but if you had 10 Units with 1000 XP and 10 Units with 2000 XP and combined them, then the resulting stack would have 1500 XP due to the fact in that situation you simply took half of each stack's XP and added it, or, 50%.

This kind of percentage based XP loss would make re-inforcing your armies a bit less agonizing.

Of course, if it already works that way, feel free to ignore me. lol

Fnord

Nerissa wrote:
A fix to how stack experience operates, or rather, how adding new units affects total stack experience.

Adding fresh units (0 XP) to an experienced stack should take away a percentage of experience based on how much of the combined stack will be comprised of fresh units.

Say you have 20 Dwarves with 5000 XP and 20 Dwarves with 0 XP, and you combine them. The resulting stack should have 2500 XP.

It gets more complicated if you're combining stacks that have experience (Necromancers primarily have this headache over skeletons), but if you had 10 Units with 1000 XP and 10 Units with 2000 XP and combined them, then the resulting stack would have 1500 XP due to the fact in that situation you simply took half of each stack's XP and added it, or, 50%.

This kind of percentage based XP loss would make re-inforcing your armies a bit less agonizing.

Of course, if it already works that way, feel free to ignore me. lol

Umm..yes, it already does work exactly this way. The experience of both stacks is always added together and averaged exactly as you describe. smile

If you're curious, the mathematical formula is expressed something like:

s1=number in stack 1 and s2=number in stack 2
e1=experience of stack 1 and e2=experience of stack 2

(s1 x e1) + (s2 x e2) / (s1 + s2)

tuomo_fin

will be nice if you

-make option than commanders can gain every single skills
-new town (if even possible)
-commander level up items (just for commanders)
-can get more hp to commanders by capturing city's(1 hp fo´r main town 1 hp more for capturing another town etc)

there is all i think....

mr.hackcrag

My biggest wish is that rampart faction be redone to look like this:

- Centaurs replaced by pixies/sprites
- elves/grand elves replaced by grand elves/sylvan centaurs
- Dragons replaced by firebirds/phoenix (growth rate of 2 instead of 4 of course)
- Change cost of these buildings to reflect new creatures. (For example, to build phoenix dwelling in rampart, it will now cost what it did when it was in conflux. Mercury will be their dominant resource now as opposed to crystal.)

EDIT: I just thought of something else that would be great: Desert terrain! Not the kind already in the game that is labeled "desert" but is really just a beach. A desert like in H2, with all the wonderful terrain objects that made the H2 desert my favorite terrain to explore. I remember there were so many fun things you could do in the desert, I wish it was in homm3. And you could even make conflux native to desert terrain, it's building already have an arabesque feel to them. And someone else mentioned adding a new faction, but if the conflux faction is redone to be as good as other factions, then you can kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

Crusader_2005

Some ideas:

1) Being able to customize EVERYTHING in the map editor(like the gold,exp from chests - they should be able to give whatever amount, set by the creator; etc) creative

2) Being able to cast some spells on heroes at the adventure map(like slow,haste etc). They should only be active for 3 turns and cost 10 times the spellpoints of casting it during combat and they should affect the hero or all of his troops.

3) Allowing neutral monsters to grow more than 4000 in numbers. smile_teeth

4) Making random maps a bit more customizable. You may notice that all neutrals around towns are mostly level 1 or 2(rarely 3). And if you are lucky the map has some regions with powerful artifacts,pandora boxes and strong guardians(I'm talking about random XL maps mostly). I also played a map when a AI player was completely isolated(by terrain); lucky for me I found the Spellbinder's Hat.

5) Removing the info messages from the Wogified artifacts(pendant of holiness, Surcoat of counterpoise etc) that are really annoying since they pop up every week and there is no way to prevent this!

6) Making the AI play much better since it never has counter-spy networks, nor does it steal resources, nor does it upgrade its towns except for the starting one(with mithril for extra gold, improved creature dwellings etc).

7) Making mithril a new resource in the marketplace

8) Making the warlord's banner cost some real amounts of resources not 1 from any type(when it is sold at the Artifacts merchant)

9) Making spellbooks able to be retrieved using the Living Skull.(this could be a bug)

10) Being able to see ALL spells affecting a creature stack during combat!! Same for morale/luck modifiers

11) Creatures with negative luck should have a chance of doing half damage.

12) The maximum morale/luck modifier should be +-10. I mean that the chances for the corresponding bonus should be increased by 5% per point(to a max of 50%) instead of the actual values(max chances at +3 bonus).

13) Commanders should cast any of their spells at Expert level(where applicable, Advanced if not).

vhilhu

another:

as element magic (earth, water, etc) is overpowered by far, maybe each hero should have only 1 of them and it should be with him from the very beginning so there wouldnt be any "who is lucky enough to get the elemental magic skill first" stuff. so all heroes start with 1 magic skill(maybe depending on bio and race, eg witch cant get fire) and cant get the others in any way.

so elemental magic should also be rebalanced(or some heroes will get ignored right away if you follow my last suggestion), i think fire magic skill is underpowered compared to others(it almost doesnt affect blind, the best spell in the game) (earth-townportal/slow, water-teleport/prayer/forget, air-haste/fly , fire skill improves significantly only curse, it IS weaker.) anyone want to argue about fire magic skill?

scouting improvement(random event) should be limited by time: i got a couple of gold dragons join me on week 2! lvl 5 and 6 shouldnt join until month 2, lvl 7 until month 3 or 2.5(third week).
_________________
All will receive the blessing... and the cleansing... But will they lift up their arms and praise Karras, as the vapours make them pure? NAY! They will wail, and scream, most ungrateful! - Karras

and yet another:

can you give numbers to creatures that have their numbers higher than the original limit(the point from which on you can get only succubi), like hell steeds? i dont know if this can be done, but i cant use those creatures in scripts. and my game crashes each time i surrender with a hero who has those creatures and cant be restored.
_________________
All will receive the blessing... and the cleansing... But will they lift up their arms and praise Karras, as the vapours make them pure? NAY! They will wail, and scream, most ungrateful! - Karras

1)

About the force field spell (its that blue stuff that just blocks the path in combat), i get the feeling its duration cannot be affected in any way (not spell power, not artefacts that lengthen unit enchantments like ring of conjuring). Is it true? if so, then you should make its duration 3 times longer. and make Force Field bigger!
so that not-learned/basic=advanced, advanced/expert=something even bigger. can you? force field is cool, but its just that other spells(blessings/curses of all kinds) are more useful.

2)

also, i think of such option: each spell should be able to be cast only once per combat so its not just the few best spells that are used.
_________________
All will receive the blessing... and the cleansing... But will they lift up their arms and praise Karras, as the vapours make them pure? NAY! They will wail, and scream, most ungrateful! - Karras

Crusader_2005

Here are some other suggestions I thought about. Hope you like them. Hope I didn't double post any of them.

1) Some spells become really useless after the game was played for a long period. So maybe they should have some secondary abilities. For example: Ice bolt,Frost Ring - should have a chance of 33% of freezing the target(s) for 3 rounds; their damage should be also increased depending on the hero level. Lightning bolt, Chain Lightning - should have a chance of 10% of shocking the target stack for 3% of its total life. Magic arrow - should have a chance of 15% that a random non-damage spell also affects the target(the spell should be from the appropriate magic school that the Magic Arrow was cast from).Fireball, Inferno - should have a chance of 33% that the targets are cursed/berserked/blinded/fire wall appears/misfortuned; also their damage should be increased, maybe considering the hero level also. Hypnotize,Stone Skin,Weakness,Slayer,Bloodlust,Destroy Undead,Death Riple - should be enhanced maybe by adding as a new factor the hero level. Land Mine - should have a 7% chance of stunning the enemy for that and the next round, or just increase the damage done by adding as a new factor the hero level.Same for Meteor Shower/Implosion. All of these secondary spells should be cast (if the chance occurs) at the skill level of the appropriate magic skill the hero has(but with no mass-effect where applicable). This way it would matter if you cast a Magic Arrow from Air/Earth/Fire/Water magic school.

2) The Disease ability is quite useless. It should be enhanced or at least be made cumulative.

3) In computer-controlled towns(EXCEPT the starting one), they never build Increased growth for creatures, nor Improved gold reserve I think. Also, these towns are most of the time poorly developed(except the creature dwellings), even if the computer player has more than enough resources. This happens on all difficulty settings.

4) Cloned/Ressurected/Animated/Re-birthed(Phoenix, Troll) units do not keep the experience level of the initial targets. At least the cloned ones and the Phoenixes/Trolls should do.

5) When defending against a siege, the defenders can get hurt by their own moat if they step on it. It should be made that only enemies be damaged by it. Also, later on in the game, the damage done by the moat is insignificant. It should be enhanced according to the number of days passed since the citadel was built, the level of the defending hero, his ballistics skill level etc.

6) The Death Riple that Liches may cast before an attack has a fixed damage of 45. It should be adjusted to do damage according to the number of liches since otherwise it is totally useless. A possible formula is: 4 x (number of liches) + 3 x (hero level) x (lich/power lich experience level). Same for Nightmares.

7) When a Succubus casts Fire Shield on Efreet Sultans, what level does the spell have? It should be the highest between the Efreet's enchantment and the Succubus' spell. Also, all commanders should cast their spells with Expert proficiency(where applicable, meaning except for spells that only gain a "mass" effect at "Expert" level, in which case "Advanced" level should be used). Same for all creatures that may cast spells(after gaining experience or not).

8) Darkness Dragons don't do extra damage against Titans and Giants but only against Lords of Thunder, although they should since these monsters are just upgraded "versions" of each other. This is true for many other creatures that can do extra damage against some "natural enemies" but not to their upgraded/non-upgraded kind(sometimes this ability is gained through experience).

9) Computer players should organize Counter-spy networks and train spies.

10) Make monsters that fight you when fishing in magic wells to be at least as powerful as your army. Fighting 5 ogres when having 100 ghost dragon is totally pointless.

11) In 90% of the cases when playing a random XL map against 2 AIs and the Fortress town is randomly picked for me, the enemy players are Inferno and Rampart! There must be something wrong here...

12) Heroes' commanders that may accompany neutral monsters are always level 1(this is also true for all commanders from places like the Imp Cache). Please adjust this so that more interesting fights can occur(progressively increase the level of commanders and give them skills/artifacts; also allow those heroes to cast spells of higher and higher levels etc).

13) In the enhanced commanders script, PLEASE change the spells that the Astral Spirit can cast to the old ones(counterstrike and slayer I think). Summon elemental is just too powerful and imbalanced(same for the Prayer of the Temple Guardian - please revert it to Precision and whatever). Same thing for the abilities Poison -> Death Stare and Magic Miror -> Fire Shield; this way battles are much more fun and commanders become much more important. Or, better, make separate WOG options just for these things. In other words I want to use the script of Enhanced Commanders but with NO changes to the spells they cast(all of them should still cast 2 spells on friendly units). Also, the Soul Eater's animate dead is USELESS!! Please change it into Air Shield + something else(haste,shield,slayer,stone skin etc). It happened to me once that I couldn't cast animate dead with this commander(on some vampire lords) even if I have casted it only twice and the magic skill was at master level.

14) It would be nice to be able to combine all of the protective orbs(of firmament, silt, fire, rain) into one that provides even greater protection and damage. Same for the tomes of magic - a secret spell should also become available, like a mass-implosion of much higher damage(it should be from a 5th magic school - e.g. Cosmos - that no orbs can protect against, but only the magic resistance skill). This way magic resistance does become more important.

15) Heroes should be able to destroy any artifact they own(maybe after dropping it and ctrl+right clicking on it). Also, when the hero's inventory is full and there are still artifacts to be taken from an enemy hero that was just defeated, they shouldn't go to waste - they should just be dropped(on the adventure map) in a special type of chest. Or, even better, heroes should be able to select what artifacts they want to get from an enemy(any kind of enemy) after defeating him, and the other ones may just go to waste...